Episode 8: Ephesians 4:1-16: Struggling with church?
When church feels frustrating, weak or small, what do we most need? We need Ephesians chapter 4 in our minds and hearts, reminding us of the big picture. Come with us as we explore it together.
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What do we find out about church in this part of the letter?
How does this passage impact your engagement with church?
Pray for opportunities to speak the truth in love in the coming weeks.
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This episode is sponsored by Crossway.
Crossway publish gospel-centered, Bible-based content that honours our Savior and serves his church. They seek to help people understand the massive implications of the gospel and the truth of God’s Word, for all of life, for all eternity, and for the glory of God.
Check out their website for all their up-to-date resources.
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The following is an uncorrected transcript generated by a transcription service. Before quoting in print, please check the corresponding audio for accuracy.
Sarah: You're listening to the Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea podcast, the Bible Study podcast for everyday life. We're here for a 20 minute burst of Bible chat over a cup of tea and an English style biscuit as we make our way through a book of the Bible over the course of the season and drive it to our hearts. And this season we're in Ephesians together. Whether you've been listening for a while or you've just found us, we're so pleased you're here.
Felicity: Now, we are really grateful for Crossway sponsoring this whole season and within minutes of picking up this study here to review it, I was ringing Sarah to tell her about this excellent resource. It is The Stories of Women in the Meet Me in the Bible series by Colleen Searcy. And it's a Bible study resource that I think stands out from other such resources because it's seeking to not only get into the Bible, but to equip women to feel confident to dig into the word for themselves. Colleen walks the reader through observation, interpretation and application, but all along is pointing them back to the text and giving pointers and encouragement as to how to mine it for all it's worth and then have hearts thrilled by the Lord. I'm really looking forward to using this study with the women at my church this summer. There are other titles in the series that I look forward to getting my hands on. Grab your copy from Crossway.org.
Sarah: Welcome to Two Sisters and a Cup of Tea, my name's Sarah, I'm in the UK. Felicity, I'm with you, you're in the US and today we are kind of hitting the second half of this letter from Paul to the Ephesians. We're going to start at chapter four verse one and go through to verse 16 but before we get there I thought we had a little chat where we're of edging into a big section on church and what church looks like and how it kind of really look what it looks like in practice and all the things we've already had a lot of conversation on church but we've not had much chat on church refreshments and you know what what's the winning combination. Helen and Hayley I’ve kind of asked for their opinions as well Helen said gluten-free biscuits are a win at her church but she does bring her own coffee (shh don't tell anyone). And Hayley said homemade cake and good coffee is what she expects from, you know, good refreshments. So, high bar, high bar, yeah. Where would you sit on this? And talk to us a little bit about the American difference here.
Felicity: That's a high expectation, I feel. Yeah. Well, yes, there is quite a big difference actually. Our church, and we're not all American churches like this, we're a relatively small church in American terms and we don't have a kitchen. And so therefore, we're fairly limited. We don't have any refreshments at our church. And I feel like we lack quite a lot because of that, just in terms of the gathering. The after church chit chat is just a social lubrication that comes with having a cup of tea in your hand or a cup of coffee and a biscuit. Obviously we wouldn't really have biscuits here, but I do know a number of churches that do coffee beforehand and donuts. Donuts is just a kind of go-to over here. do you? Okay.
Sarah: We do donuts, we do donuts and hot cross buns. They're cut into quarters so you know a quarter of a donut.
Felicity: Hot cross buns. Wow. Hot cross buns, like, you know. But also, that's not all year round, right? That's just in this moment.
Sarah: I think it might be actually. I don't know, I'm not in charge of refreshments so... But there's definitely a familiar... Or there's like some, you know, chocolate croissants, that kind of thing makes its way to the... Baked goods generally, yeah. I'm edging for a bit of fruit. I think some fruit should also be there, but, you know, you can't win them all. So... Yeah. Yeah, I don't feel I've seen a custard cream or a Bourbon for quite a long time actually.
Felicity: I feel like that's quite unusual, that's like the given. All those nice biscuits, you know, that have got nice written on them. I feel like they're the church staple. They're not so nice. It's true, it's true.
Sarah: That aren't so nice. Yeah, they're not, are they? Okay, but other than biscuits and tea and coffee, some biscuits you might find quite frustrating, know, not a fan. What do you do when you don't find the biscuits frustrating, but you might feel that church feels a bit frustrating? How do you approach that? What does it look like to kind of sit in that?
Felicity: Hmm, I think it's really good just to say that out loud that it's probably a very real feeling for lots of people. I hope not a constant feeling, but I'm sure we all dip in and out of feeling just a bit frustrated that church is not being done quite as we would have it done. And the first thing, when I'm in that kind of feeling and it can feel quite angsty and I, I do get quite angsty about just kind of, why aren't we doing these different things that could really enhance things? I have to just check myself actually and ask the Lord to help me see where I am being kind of preferential. Is it just my preference? And where is my critical spirit coming out? Do I need to be critiquing? Like is that really edifying to me and to others? I'm pretty careful. If I'm feeling frustrated, I'm pretty careful just probably not going to be speaking to many people about that. I don't want to unsettle what's going on. My biggest thing really is to pray. I've just been really driven to prayer in it. Praying for my heart, showing me my sin, but also praying for our leadership, praying for wisdom, praying for clarity and for unity in the church. think it really helps. Strangely, it actually really helps being in a book like Ephesians because this is the ideal that we're seeing depicted here, but it's helpful to see that that is the ideal. We live in a broken world and a bunch of sinners are in this church gathering and our leaders are not Jesus and you know, all of these just reminders, like just charitable in that and gracious in that.
Sarah: And there's a reason why the next few chapters are going to speak a lot into the fact that we need to put sin to death and put on a new self and we need to work hard at unity. We need to work hard to strive to be thankful because actually thankfulness is the antidote to grumbling, isn't it? A grumbling heart. And so actually I think whenever I feel that or temptation to grumbling, actually am I countering that with more thankfulness? Am I seeking to be even more thankful for the different aspects of church life, the different people within church and just making sure that you're doing that first and foremost as you say in prayer before we, yeah, just kind of really seeking to kind of squash. Like there may be helpful frustrations to be talking through but actually how thankful, what's my thankfulness like at that point. Let's get into this passage. So in chapter four, verse one, you're gonna read for us.
Felicity: Yes, okay, here we go.
As a prisoner for the Lord then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There's one body and one spirit just as you were called to one hope when you were called. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in but to each of us, grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says, when he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people. What does he ascended mean except that he also descended to the lower earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens in order to fill the whole universe. So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers to equip his people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we'll no longer be infants tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people and their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love will grow to become in every respect the mature body of Him who is the head that is Christ. From him the whole body joined and held together by every supporting ligament grows and builds itself up in love as each part does its work.
Sarah: Okay, brilliant. Well, we've got this kind of segue into this next part of the letter, haven't we? And the first thing that Paul says in verse one is that you're to live a life in light of what you've been hearing over the last three chapters. So all that he's about to say is in light of what they know and what they've been kind of grounded in. And it's just so striking, isn't it? The first thing that he says, in verse two, be completely humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love. So he's just prayed this massive prayer for us to grow in our knowledge of Christ's love. And then the first thing we're to do, the most important thing to do is to walk in this love in relation to others who are around us. It's so Christ-like, isn't it, in bearing the fruit of his spirit in this way. And it's just so striking that gentleness and humility are the kind of, the kind of primers, they're the foundations of how we respond to one another.
Felicity: Yeah, which speaks into actually our inclination and tendency to not be like this. Like we need to be praying that we would know the love of Christ as we've just heard in the previous prayer because actually we need, by God's grace, to grow in that, to continually grow in that because by nature we actually don't do this. And I love verse three, make every effort to keep the unity. in that very, we make every, deliberately pursue unity through gentleness and humility and bearing with because of our own accord we won't go that way and even you know the unity which is true we are united and we hear it so much the repeated one one one like one body one spirit one lord emphatically united and yet we still need to pursue that to have the peace within that unity.
Sarah: Yes and he I mean that really he's just reminding us of everything he's already said isn't it again he's like just in case you need another reminder like this is who you are together you are under God and father of all who is over all and through all but within that grace has been given as Christ apportioned it different gifts have been given and he takes a quote from Psalm 68 here doesn't he which is an interesting one because it it doesn't it feels like it doesn't quite sit here but Felicity talk us through what he's doing with this quote.
Felicity: Often Paul takes a quote from the Old Testament and it is directly from that. And the question we need to be asking is why is he bringing in Psalm 68 to this? He's actually altered it a bit as well. He does that a bit, you know, just to kind of make it fit, I think, and to kind of bring it into line with what he's saying here in Ephesians. But the big point being that in Psalm 68, we get this kind of almost a kind of triumphant procession being described. And actually in the Roman or in the kind of just generally in those triumphant kind of post battle processions, gifts would be given out kind of like, what's the term, not loot, but know, kind of like triumphant kind of war additions. The plunder, the plunder, exactly. And so what we have here is a description of Christ as he is triumphant, he gave gifts to his people. And that's always been the way that it's been that the leader the King would give gifts to his people. And that leads us into what are the gifts that Christ has given. We see it in verse 11. And the bit in brackets, you got any insight on the bit in brackets there?
Sarah: No. No, but that's okay for now because actually what we want to get to is the word gifts that he's given. The apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors, their teachers, they're all word gifts. They're gifts of bringing this message that we've just been hearing about in chapter three, this revelation of the mystery of the gospel of Christ. But the crucial thing is that it's not, he doesn't stop there, does he? Like the gifts are given, these word gifts to give this word of grace to the body are there to equip his people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up. So it's just the fact that it doesn't stop with the pastors and teachers, it doesn't stop with the evangelists. Like it is, the body is wholly involved and I think that is just such a crucial sentence here isn't it?
Felicity: I think that's possibly not the way we instinctively think. I remember before I understood what this was actually saying, I thought that my pastor was, his role was to build up the body. Like, he's going to be doing it. Like, brilliant, we've got a pastor who's going to teach the word, that's what's going on. But the continuation of this to equip so that, like, it's integral, it cannot happen without the body of Christ being, that's us, the church being equipped to do this. And so it just really increases and kind of elevates the role of the ordinary believer, in fact, within the church body. Yeah.
Sarah: Yes, of every member having a part to play in this and we see that worked out don't we? the reason we're being built up is until we all reach unity. So again that word unity is so crucial importance and in the knowledge of the Son of God which we've been learning about in the first three chapters and becoming mature. So maturity is a big outbox of all that's going on here and then as we get further down, we see this word mature again, we're going to be growing in every respect to become the mature body of him who is the head that is Christ. And just that idea in verse 16 that every, every supporting ligament, every part of the body is doing its work, is growing and building itself up in love as each part does its work. Like this is a whole together endeavor, isn't it? Yes, we've been given the pastors and teachers. Yes, we honor them and we are so grateful for them, but their role is to equip the wider body to be building each other up, to be serving one another, to be maturing and growing together in the faith.
Felicity: Yeah, yeah and that maturity I think then in verse 14, so that we won't be tossed back and forth by the waves and deceit, by cunning and craftiness and actually deceitful schemes and lies. So if we have the truth, we have the revelation. The means by which we're going to hold to that is by being built up into maturity, into this fullness of Christ and as a result we will hold to that truth rather than being knocked off course by whatever heresy, whatever lie, not even heresy within the church, like outside of the church, like what is the world saying? So in order that for us to live in our context, in our society, and this is true for the Ephesians back then, just as much as for us, if you imagine they've got a whole bunch of lies being told, this is the truth, not that, this is the truth, without every person, every believer, every member of that body speaking this truth in love to one another, like building one another up in that way, then there's a risk that will be knocked off course. And so it's even of greater value than just, that's nice to be mature and to grow into a good church. But actually the outworking of that is a safeguarding, it is an absolute anchoring. Like we need this to be happening.
Sarah: Yes and there's a real proag activity therefore isn't there to church life here that the word of grace is given by those with word gifts but then this word is then embedded into life, into conversations, into prayers as we speak the truth in love to one another that is the way it says here that we will grow to become the mature body so that word is taken and it's kind of just littered and filtered through in every different part of church life and it's in and it's not just the organized parts of church life is it? It's the very kind of fabric of just relationship and I think that's why we keep banging on about kind of getting the word open with others on a one-to-one and just that opportunity to speak the truth in love into one another's lives in a more direct and personal way is just such a gift and it's not just a nice add-on, it's here, it's a foundational part of maturing and growing and building up the body together. this, I mean, this really does sum up what we are really, why we're doing this still, doesn't it?
Felicity: Yeah, I think it really does. I think it's shaped a lot of, for both of us, how we go about being involved in a church, whether we're in a ministry role or not, how we actually go into Sundays, how we go into small, how we organise, well, who am I going to see this week? And it's not, I'm always thinking this, but there is a underlying thread of, well, how am going to seek to be speaking truth in love to fellow believers and unbelievers this week? Because I'm so convinced that this is how God works. But even, like you know, we were talking about refreshments at the beginning. As we're standing there with our cup of coffee, a cup of tea and our biscuit, like that in itself, chatting to someone potentially is an opportunity to speak truth and love. And if a cup of tea is going to help make that happen, let's have all the tea in the world. Like, let's make our churches, places in our communities, places where we are giving opportunities to speak truth in love in this way not just to meet with the pastor but to meet with one another and that one anothering is just, I mean it's the best.
Sarah: And to have courage to be distinctive in that, to not just chat about the weather, which I know is a British thing, but like actually just for our chat to intentionally go deeper. And actually I know that on a Sunday morning, if I haven't prayed for those opportunities and asked the Lord to show me who I can speak the truth in love to and who I can get alongside with and share just a word of truth with, I'm not gonna be as aware of my responsibility to do that. And I'm not gonna be as kind of proactive in that, but if I have prayed in light of these words, that really impacts the way I walk into church actually, and it really impacts the way I view the Sunday gathering and my responsibility, my role, even if I'm not on the rota in any official way. There's so much here for Felicity. Would you pray for us all, for those listening and for us, that we really would be those who are living out what we're seeing here?
Felicity: I’d love to. Father we praise you so much for the picture of your gathered body here. Thank you for the gifts you give these pastors and teachers evangelists that that we would then be equipped to build one another up in love. Father we pray that that would be true of us in whatever local church setting we're in. We pray that you would enable us by your grace to be those who speak truth in love and that love part that we would be gentle and patient and bearing with and Lord keep us pursuing unity in these ways. Lord thank you that you work this way and so we pray that we would love this picture, love to be involved in it. What an enabling thing to be part of what you're doing as we gather with other believers and speak this truth in love to them. We pray this for your glory. Amen.
Sarah: Amen. Well, why not take a moment to give thanks for your church and keep praying for opportunities to speak the truth in love and to be doing what this passage is asking us all to be doing in your church as you head into the service this Sunday, but also through the week. Remember also that we've got a bonus episode coming up answering your questions on everything related to Ephesians. So do email us at podcastingsisters@gmail.com if you've got a question and we will seek to include that in our upcoming episode. And we look forward to seeing you next Friday as we'll be in the second half of chapter four and we'll see you then.
Felicity: See you then, bye bye. This episode is sponsored by Crossway.org.
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